Question:
how close is bt and other ISPs getting to having a competitive fibre optic broadband compared to virgin media?
dodgeboynorwich
2010-12-12 20:45:09 UTC
i am feed up with virgin medias BS billing department and want to know how close other isps are in offering a service that will compete with them do i still need a bt phone line to get internet from anywhere else than virgin media?
preferably by fibire optic as the speed lost from the max speed advertised is higher with copper cables!

what can i do about virgin medias failures to get a bill to me before my direct debit gets charged?
Three answers:
sewrobb
2010-12-12 21:47:58 UTC
BT has only just started laying fibre optics. Some 16/17 years as a matter of fact after Telecential the original company that Virgin now is laid them in back 1993/4.



I assume that it will be for BT customers only. I can't see them letting it out to other providers to be honest, because BT is still pissed off to the fact that the then Monopolies Commission forced BT to open up their network to other providers for a nominal rental fee to use their equipment.



Thus BT lost control on what they could charge which was a 99% rip off with peak calls.



You can still have paper bills if you want.



Payment: If you prefer not to pay by Direct Debit and/or want to receive a paper bill, the monthly price for your Virgin Phone line with these options is: phone line and non-Direct Debit payment handling: £17.24; phone line and paper bill: £13.49; phone line, non-Direct Debit payment handling and paper bill: £18.49 (£19.74 with mobile broadband paper bill). These prices include a £5 payment handling charge payable to Virgin Media Payments Ltd and/or a paper bill charge of £1.25 a month. Mobile paper bill charge of £1.25 may also apply. You must, at a minimum, take all services included in your bundle for your minimum contract term. If you change any part of your bundle, standard prices apply.



http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-10mb.html
?
2010-12-12 21:37:35 UTC
Well, as a VM user (my father is the VM customer/subscriber - my part is maintaining the indoor setups etc), i've had no reason (from 512K through 50Mb options, over 5+ years) to want to change (based on if i was the subscriber, and my own usage experience). So i've no real 'god this is awful' experience to share and suchlike. I'd definately consider (for my purposes) going back to copper (dial-up or broadband, or ISDN) to be a major step backwards.



You don't strictly need a phone line (of any provider, BT or otherwise) to have broadband outside of Virgin Media, but clearly you will for fixed-line broadband (i assume that T3's etc aint in the running here, the scope is strictly domestic/business grade telephone line based connections i'd assume).



If you are in a decent coverage area, you still have the 3G/3G Mobile Broadband/GPRS option, using either a data-enabled cellular phone tethering or a dongle attached to a PC (also, remember, this doesn't discount router usage, as there are examples that will allow a fallback connection or primary connection via a dongle or cellular phone that's usb connectable).



At best, in reality, a cellular connection (based on a best case 7.xxMb connection, which is hardly stable for many where they are lucky to get around a 3Mb connection as typically 'fast') is going to roughly equate to poor grade 802.11 B/G connections (where, we should assume 'poor' means fundamentally unoptimised and nearer to dialup grade than broadband) so you'll be looking at throughputs of around 300K & 700K equiv throughputs at best, but of the real world 3G tests i have experienced, it's going to be somewhere between dialup equiv and narrow broadband (64K through 256K) equivalence - which in itself isn't bad given the circumstances and conditions and factors that affect radio comms links (especially since most domestic wireless data links use heavily crowded Ghz range frequency allocations).



I personally wouldn't opt for 3G Cellular over an available 802.11 link or any wired broadband in general, but would opt for it in situations where nothing else is available (on the assume of legal usage) or in a situation where it's a fallback role only for indoor use. I don't know if there are any currently available systems such as the old Hughes sat based system (the one that downlinked over a satellite link, and uplinked over dialup), so i'll discount that as a going viable option.



As for the limits and possible improvements to copper link technology (aka phone line based broadband) - that's pretty much a wait & see situation. On the whole, the actual limiting factors for phoneline based broadband isn't really exchange side (unless you are in a very poor location with huge contention issues, maybe) but more between the quality of the copper link between your location and the exchange, and also contention/demand at the ISP end.



Like with any 'copper' wired connection, the signal grade degrades over distance, so the further you are from the exchange, the worse any effect signal-to-noise ratio gets (where signal level drops, and there is more apparent noise as far as equipment/measurement would perceive) - which is really no different in basic principle to the effect of poor SNR in radio setups. Beyond that, the overall grade of the copper between your location and the exchange is equally important - you can't really expect a location with thirty plus year old copper to be as high grade now, as recently (say 5-10 year old) installed copper. Again, put this into context of radio, and you'll find it's the same story with radio antennas and the feeder (coax or balanced ribbon) - over time, through reaction to moisture, air and basic galvanic corrosion, the whole link degrades over time and even with top notch material, you get a basic worsening of SNR over a long period of time.



Finally, in terms of the external part of the copper link, there is only so much capacity on a telephony circuit (as is the case for fibre too), but the more connections you put onto the street copper (the under-street bit), the more the overall grade deteriorates across the street. It's a bit like what happens when you load an phone line with many extensions (each extension has an effect on the overall internal grade of the link, and each phone/device attached has a loading effect, pulling down the grade).



So i'd, in your shoes, way up whether you are prepared to gamble, or make do with the current situation - which is likely to be a worse move..?? - As for BT's fibre network, when it'll be up to a comparable coverage and grade - means having to wait til they've had a chance to get the work done (at the very least)



As for the VM billing issue - i'm sure the options are available on the Customer Zone part of the website, and if not - it's an issue that can only really be dealt with by talking to the horse's mouth (aka VM Customer Services).
anonymous
2016-12-01 13:58:05 UTC
that is stable, that is rapid, shopper help sucks till you shout at them and threaten to touch head workplace lol! they are very rapid to shrink off the provider for overdue fee and the rivalry fee is surprisingly undesirable based the place you reside, so provider may well be quite sluggish, have had problems with the dns servers occurring some cases yet they are rapid to repair issues and you could verify them online, till you''ve been shrink off. in addition they video demonstrate site visitors and could limit your velocity if for the duration of specific hours in case you "are a heavy consumer" ie you got torrents. in fact they are ok yet no longer the suitable


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